Read the article posted on our Edline page that highlights the debate between Muslims and Hindus regarding human rights for women. (Read your textbook pages 62-63 before commenting.) Who do you think is better off and why? Be specific!!!
Wednesday, March 17, 2010
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I think Hindu women have it worst (even though they arent that much different) because being commanded to sacrifice your individuality to be obedient to your husband and to only be allowed to enjoy certain things when he does is one thing but being commanded to sacrifice your own life just because your husband died or because everybody will praise your virtue is a completely different thing and could make life as a Hindu women extremely difficult.
ReplyDeleteHello...anybody home?
ReplyDeleteI honestly am torn between choices. Both articles are very controversial and neither group of women seems to have to much of an advantage over the other. However the Hindu women might have it a little tougher due to "Sati". Even though it is illegal today in class we discussed that women are looked down upon if they do not dive on top of their husband during his cremation. However on the choice of marriage, Muslim women have it worse. They are not allowed to choose their own husband. For Hindu women, the are allowed to marry out of their cast; however it might end up in death, but she still has her right to choose her husband.
ReplyDeleteI agree with mike. Both articles show that the women in both groups dont have a very easy life. But i also believe the Hindus have it worse. Sati is one of the main reasons for the Hindus having it worse. The Hindus also cant remarry and they can only marry in their caste. However, the Muslims can remarry and or they can marry and Muslim. So even though both groups of women have it bad i think Hindus definitely have it worse.
ReplyDeleteHindus and Muslim both argue to have the better treatment of women, which makes me wonder, why do they even follow such odd customs when they try and deny it in certain circumstances. Allen has a point; Hindu women seem to be forced to act as their husband does. However, on the other hand, Muslim men basically consider their wives as property. Both religions fail to offer complete equality between the two genders, unlike Christianity which views all humans as equal. Personally, I feel that Hindu women are better off. This is because Islamic women in the 21st century still are treated as property and men have the right to marry multiple wives without establishing love, which is viewed as important in both Hindu and Christian tradition. Surely, Hindu women do have a harsh life because of what Allen said about how they are forced to act as their husband does, however at least this maintains a sort of bond and acknowledgment of a relationship. Islamic men have extremely higher authority compared to their female counterparts. Hindu women are forced to share in their husband's grief or delight. This may seem unfair, yet people don't realize that this is basically what occurs in Christian marriages as well. When a husband or wife loses their job, their partner is normally filled with grief as well. Islamic women normally share no feelings between their husband and are expected to just simply obey.
ReplyDeleteBoth Muslim and Hindu women have very tough lives. They both have very little freedom and are expected to do what their husbands say. Even though Hindu women somewhat get to choose their husband they still cant pick anyone they want. Muslim women have absolutely no choice, but its not like it really matters because both Hindu and Muslim women have to do exactly what their husbands tell them to do. Like Allen and Mike said Hindu women are even expected to sacrifice themselves after their husbands die, that is just ridiculous everyone should go when its their own time. Personally i think Hindu women are better off because from what we have learned so far i understand that they are not beaten at much, and their husbands may treat them better. Even though they are expected to sacrifice themselves i think their life would be better than a Muslim woman.
ReplyDeleteBoth articles show that Muslim and Hindu women are disrespected in their household, but I believe Hindus have it worse, because of the "Sati." Once a husband of a Hindu women dies, she must jump on top of his flaming body, in order to show her obedience and thankfulness that he gave her everything. In contract with marriage, I think Hindu women still have it worst, because marrying outside of their social caste could up in debt and also death. Muslims aren't allowed to choose their spouses, but they are allowed to get remarried, unlike Hindus. So overall, both groups of women are treated badly, but in my opinion the Hindu women are restricted to most things in life and are treated worst.
ReplyDeleteWow i totally did not read the articles before i posted because im smart like that. So here is my new answer and it pretty much goes along the lines of what everyone else says. Becuase my Hindu and Muslim women are disrespected by their husbands i believe Muslim women have it better, but by better i do not mean anywhere near having it good. I still believe they both live miserable lives. Because of the "Sati" and the risk of marrying for Hindu women i now think that Muslim women have it better.
ReplyDeleteIt is difficult to differentiate between the views on Hindu and Muslim women. Most views seem to have more similarities rather than differences. Both views regard women as property of men and they must obey their every command. They are also forced to pay a dowry to their husbands for marriage and cannot choose the the men they want. I believe Muslims are better off though because they are not required to perform "sati' once there husbands die. Although it is forbidden, some parts of the Hinduism countries possibly continue the traditional practice or give punishment in "holy" ways.
ReplyDeleteIt is unfortunate that both Muslim women and Hindu women are dominated by men and are subject to be treated chauvinistically. As of now, I actually believe that Muslim have it worse off. A Hindu woman can choose their partner as long as they are within the same caste class. A Muslim woman for the most part has her spouse chosen for her ,but she also must give agreement. When it comes to remarriage, it is known that Hindu women cannot remarry while Muslim women can. Since Sati is very rarely practiced at the moment, a Hindu widow is punished by being shunned from society and is considered to be a curse. If it was a Muslim widow, it would be considered their duty to remarry and serve under another man. Although a Hindu woman would not be a respected member of the community, a Muslim woman would be almost forced into entering another relationship of being beaten, mistreated, and dominated by her husband. To conclude, I would say that Muslim women have it worse, because they are almost condemned from the start to live the life of a serf.
ReplyDeleteI Think hindu women have it worst becuase of the way the marriages are set up. Even though the Muslim women are not treated well Hindu women are treated worst. In Islam any muslim man and woman can get married, If i Hindu marries some person from a different class the woman from the lower class is constantly paying the more wealthy family to stay alive. Also if a Hindu woman's husband die they must commit suicide and they really have no say in the marriage. With Muslim women they are treated as property BUT they have the right to divorce just as much as the man does in the Marriage
ReplyDeleteI find this a fairly easy desicion to make. I think that the Muslim women are much better off than the Hindu women. This is because the women of the Hindu religion MUST do whateer their husbands do. This is a horribe rule to have to follow. These poor women are forced to commit suicide if their husbands die before them. The Musim women only really have to cover their entir bodies. I wouldn't perfer being a part of either of these religious groups but thats just me.
ReplyDeleteOk, let me start off by saying that article given to us by Mr. Bauer isn't exactly the best source to get information from. There are two different testimonies on the treatment of women from two different religious standpoints. Therefore, this information is invalid considering the fact that these two sources are completely subjective opinions. Someone might ask why would that be a problem? The answer is simple, someone who has a personal interest in a religion will defend it to the end, even if it requires "loosely interpreting" some of the rules specified within the religion.
ReplyDeleteIt is painfully obvious that these testimonies were taken from a public forum (it even says so on the top of the page!) Given that fact, this information could be utterly useless (because it's biased!) The second source makes no attempt to hide his personal interest in the argument (i.e: [statement:]The Hindu woman has no right to divorce her husband. [reaction:} For Hindus: are you kidding or what? Do some research before making a post.) It is undeniable that these two articles are biased, and in no way whatsoever, objective.
Based on the fact that the second poster (for lack of a better term) had made the harsh accusation of "doing research before posting" I will proceed under the assumption that he or she had actually researched (or had previous knowledge of) both Hinduism and Islam. Almost entirely ignoring the first poster's comments (except for the valid statements which we reviewed in class, such as "Sati")
Both articles thoroughly explain that neither religion treats women with respect. Hindu women, for example, were supposed to voluntarily cremate themselves to show their obedience to their husband. Although the practice of Sati (the act of cremating oneself for the sake of being obedient) has been abolished, it is a sterling example of how badly women have been disrespected in Hindu history. However, Muslim women weren't treated much better, if anything, they were treated as bad or worse than Hindu women. Firstly, a woman only experienced "freedom"* before they were married to a man. Once they married a man they were supposed to faithfully follow the man's actions and Muslim women are unable to do anything without a man's consent (they aren't even able to leave the house.) Muslim women are essentially imprisoned for the rest of their lives after they are married. Even if a Muslim woman's husband dies, they are encouraged to remarry because they wouldn't be able to provide for themselves (women aren't allowed to work.) Once they remarry, they are imprisoned once again, tied by the shackles society has created.
While it is unfortunate that neither a Hindu or Muslim woman can experience the freedom that other religions (or atheism for that matter) offer, I firmly believe that Hindu women are better off than Muslim women. Hindu women have more "freedom" than the Muslim women, and that "freedom" in and of itself is enough of a reason for me to say that Hindu women are better off than Muslim women. In essence a Muslim woman has no social life, and no means of gaining a social life, once they marry a man. While a Hindu woman is still unable to do many of the things that a normal woman is able to do, they are still able to do many things a Muslim woman is unable to do. For example, a Hindu woman is able to divorce their husband if they have legitimate reasons, while a Muslim woman has no right to divorce her husband (however, a husband only has to mutter "Talak" three times to divorce her.) Many people have referred to Sati as a reason to favor Muslim over Hinduism; however, Sati was abolished in Hinduism in 1987(although this isn't the best source it was the easiest to find:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29#Modern_times)
I didn't provide much information to support my thesis mostly because I'm getting kind of hungry and want to eat. But if anyone asks I'll gladly give them more information on why I feel Hindu women are better off :D
BTW Allen, I liked your post :]. You almost made me change my opinion when you said that "once Hindu women are married they lose their individuality" but in essence both religions strip women of their individuality after marriage.
*= in quotations because a woman's freedom was lesser than a man's freedom.
sry i had to do my answer in two seperate posts, apparently there's a character limit on Comments :P
Like as everyone said, it is very unfortunate for the Muslim and Hindu women. It is sad to see women get put down, I don't even understand why...
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I have no idea on what to say. It seems that Nafeesa was biased, according to how that other guy responded to her, but I'll just write with the knowledge I was provided with. Ahem.
It seems that Hindu women have it worse, and it's not just the Sati (burning of a widow), it's because: Women can not divorce their husbands, the choice of her partner is limited, and the family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the bridegroom/family. Some of the points made do contradict themselves though, like the whole Sati and the remarry. You can't remarry someone if you are burnt, like really now? The widow is cursed and can not be seen in public...well obviously she's gonna be seen in public if she's going to be burned to death while people praise her for "dieing with her lover."
It seems that Muslim women have the right to divorce and can enjoy and inherit property rights. I don't remember reading about this last chapter...
But she can marry a Muslim of her choice, so that's good. Love is all you need ♥
I don't know if any of this is accurate or not, but whether or not, it's still horrible. Women should be treated as equals, but I guess some men still want to be considered the dominant species. Oh well.
To be honest I think this article contradicts one another ...if it contradicts how can we be sure of what they are truly receiving? For example Hindus can get remarried and given highest form of respect while other paper says widow is considered a curse and not to be seen in public. i kind of don't get it.Each one is contradicting each other does that mean that both religions are okay they just have misunderstandings.But honestly in my opinion I don't think it matters they receive benefit s from marrying and they both could receive problems but honestly what religion truly doesn't?
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the articles, I really can’t decide which religion is better off because these were views from other people. Since they’re someone else’s opinion, I can’t tell which one is more accurate. But in my opinion, I think Muslim women are better off than Hindu women. According to our book, traditional Hindu society has always been under the domination of men. This meant that women’s dharma was required to be obedient to men. One striking and controversial example of how Hindu women are treated is the practice of “sati”, the burning of a widow. The Padmapurana, a Hindu text, explains some traditional teachings on general obedience expected of a wife. It mentions that during the practice of sati, a wife must allow herself to be burnt alive on her husband’s funeral. Everyone will praise her virtue if she performs this act. This makes me wonder: Was sati so important that it had to be included in one of the Hindu texts? Isn’t being a good and loyal wife good enough for others to praise her for? I’m glad that in 1829 sati has been officially forbidden. It’s a gruesome and horrible way for Hindu women to show their love and obedience for their husband.
ReplyDeleteBy both of the articles, it is hard to compare which one is better off. Both writers try to explain that Hindu>Muslim or Muslim>Hindu but even still with points that contradicts each writers view, it still shows the Muslim and Hindu women are still not treated as equals. By comparing the two posts, it seems as if Muslim women have are better off than Hindu women for that fact that Hindu women are suppose to be killed if their husband died, today that is illegal, but would still get punished.
ReplyDeleteMan its late. I've been sick all day and barely got time to go on.
ReplyDeleteWell, I can't beleive I'm saying this, but the Muslim side actually seems better. The Muslims might treat taken advantage of, but the Hindu women seem completely restricted. Muslims seem to have the right to inheritances and finances, and can devorce and remarry. Hindu women are treated as complete property and expect to die when their husband goes... When stacked up, the Muslim standards seem more lenient.
I really want to write more, but my head's killing me. So this is all for tonight.
Sorry this is so late!
ReplyDeleteI've read the article, and gathering up all the information from what I've learned and here, I believe any group is more "better off" than the other. Both women have unfair restrictions in marriage, but some of them are similar. And in both religions, the woman is considered more of an "item" or "property", rather than a human being. Hm, this is a hard choice. And if this was from a certain source rather than the views of others, then it would be easier to choose. But as for now, I'm undecided.
Oh and I mean "I DON'T believe that any group".
ReplyDeletefinally I can post!
ReplyDeleteI feel that the article helped but there is still so much more on this topic. I personally don't feel that one is worse than the other. they both and faults in different ways. Muslim women are pretty much property as soon as they are married, maybe even before. Hindu women have a it a little more harder. When their husbands die, at their funeral; women are forced to be burned alive with their husband. that's a little harsh if you ask me. Muslim women are always covered and kept away from the world.
-I agree with Matt when he says both Muslim and Hindu women live harsh lives. But I do believe Hindu women have it worse off than Muslim women. 1.They are not allowed to marry outside of their caste and if they do the bride's parents must pay a large amount of money to protect his from being killed. 2. When a Hindu woman husband dies she is required to commit sati (burning herself alive with her husband). This is horrible because what if she just had a child or already had children they are now parent-less and have no one to look after them. When a Muslim woman dies she is not encouraged to commit suicide. Also if a Hindu woman husband feels sad she is not allowed t enjoy herself until he feel better. Muslim women are not restricted from having feelings. In the end I believe Hindu women have it worse off.
ReplyDelete